Tuesday, June 9, 2009

And the race is on.

It is unfortunate when a previously (seemingly )open minded person descends into the muck that is typical of so many anti-freedom - pro-ignorance folks who are against the 2nd Amendment.

Today's Pro-Ignorance Troll of the Day-- strongly contending for Pro-Ignorance Troll of the Year -- is MikeB302000.

So what earns MikeB his often earned title?

One of the commenters on the Kalamazoo site really expressed his ideas. liam9903 had this to say.
These nut jobs that like to walk around wearing guns to compensate for their lack of abilities elsewhere are to pathetic to even mock. I'm sure you could find a nutty Ron Paul supporter or racist rapture waiting survivalist in the group if you looked a little deeper. Most "2nd amendment advocates" shouldn't be aloud scissors much less the right to carry their gun around in public.

I must admit, at the risk of bringing a firestorm of comments down on my head, I agree pretty much with what the Gun Guys said, and even a little bit with Liam. I don't think it's normal behaviour to carry a gun, and picnics like these which are designed to "raise public awareness," seem like an attempt to make the abnormal normal.

Gee Mike, It isn't normal for whom? It isn't normal for most folks because the government has so far infringed on that which shouldn't be infringed that people don't realize they have the legal right to carry firearms. And in some cases, they don't have the right. The fact that governments and people like you are trying to remove our right to self defense is what is abnormal.

Not satisfied to insult the group's effort at free speech and to raise public awareness, MikeB goes on.

What Liam says, this question of inadequacy, never fails to elicit the strongest negative reaction from the pro-gun crowd. Sometimes I wonder if the ones who complain the loudest about that are the truly "inadequate" ones. Anyway, here's my take on it.

Maybe we are truly winning the battle of public perception because the anti's are reduced to discussing our "adequacy" issues. Sorry MikeB, the only inadequacy that I have is that I can't throw a rock at 850 feet per second as the old saying goes. By the way, you might want to look into this pheneom:
In psychology, psychological projection (or projection bias) is a defense mechanism where a person's personal attributes, unacceptable or unwanted thoughts, and/or emotions are ascribed onto another person or people. According to Wade, Tavris (2000) projection occurs when a person's own unacceptable or threatening feelings are repressed and then attributed to someone else.

Just saying....you know, it is never too late to seek the help.

MikeB is trying to win the pro-ignorance crowd's award for how many trite, tired, overworked, completely false cliches to be worked into a blog post. He's in the running to win it.

Gun-toting guys who talk about self-defense, are usually living in a fantasy world. The vast majority of these guys, I would bet, never need their weapons for self-defense. It's just an idea, a fantasy, like the one about fighting off the government gun-confiscators. It's an adolescent male fighting fantasy.

For some strange unknown reason, MikeB refuses to accept reality. We've have shown him Clayton Cramer's excellent site - Civilian Self Defense Blog many times. We've pointed out study after study showing anywhere from 100K to 2.5 Million defensive gun uses per year. The closed mind is truly a terrible waste.

Another aspect of that statement is the sexism "gun-toting guys". I've asked him to vist various different sites around the internet and leave a comment like that, but again...he doesn't want to let reality interfere with his world view.

Continuing his presentation of verbal froth completely lacking in information supporting it MikeB goes on

Meanwhile, here's the real problem. The more guns there are, the more get stolen, sold to the wrong people, and worst of all misused for suicides and homicides. Research we've all heard about says it's much more likely that a gun in the home will be misused than used for self defense.
See, the cliches and misinformation just keep rolling off his finger tips. I wouldn't have so much of a problem with this except for many, many months now, various bloggers have worked to present the truth to MikeB.
If you want a primer in 2nd amendment advocacy, go read his comments. Don't bother with the tripe in his post....just read the comments left by the pro-firearm crowd. He's hit just about every possible avenue and gun bloggers have completed shredded every argument; provding citations, sources, and statistics to back up the arguments.

Keep up this work MikeB....the year is just at the half way point. Don't let you complete lack of evidence or rational thought get in the way of you going for that title -- heck it is a requirement to earn the Pro-Ignorance Troll of the Year Award.

UPDATE-- Hilarious update even....head over and check out another response -- "I don't think it's normal behavior to be a homosexual" -- to the Troll of the Day's post at Aztec Red's great site Barack's Gun Lies. You will be glad you did.

34 comments:

Weer'd Beard said...

And his exit question:
"What's your opinion? Do you think it's more likely that your gun will be used properly for self defense one day, or that it will be used improperly as an object of theft or misuse? Don't you think most of the people who have had guns stolen or misused said the same thing?"

Of course both you and I have pledged to have our guns destroyed if MikeB or anybody else could ever prove that accusation. (That answers the question pretty good)

And of course MikeB openly admits to owning illigal guns. I'm curious if they were stolen, or bought on the black market...and where they are today.

I would be very suprised if MikeB's guns haven't been used in a violent crime in the last few decades.

But that's OK, because we respect and follow the law we're to blame, and we pressure the FBI and the CDC to release faulty data to cover our evil tracks!

I'm really starting to think MikeB suffers from a serious mental illness.

tom said...

I went to college in Kalamazoo for my non-gunsmithing post-secondary education.

A friend of mine back then I'm stil in touch with got stomped by a gang of "urban youth" as a night manager of a convenience store trying to save a kid from being mugged for his bicycle in front of the store. Broken ribs and clavicle and some other skeletal injuries that haunt him to this day over 20 years later.

He moved to Florida. Carries a gun. Is not compensating for anything.

I've been in Kalamazoo not that long ago, maybe late 2007. It's worse than when I lived there. I can't blame people for wanting to carry.

FWIW: You may know a poster here that at that time may or may not have carried even if it may or may not have been illegal at that time and place. Some things never change. Being able to defend yourself is a significant part of continuing to breathe.

tom said...

Oh, FWIW, Do cops and soldiers carry guns because they are "compensating for lack in abilities"? Or is it because the first rule of a gunfight is it is best to have a gun?

Bob S. said...

Great point Tom,

I really want to see him try to leave that "compensating" comment on some of the blogs I linked to in the post.

Weer'd Beard said...

A better question is "What are these anti-gunners compensating for?"

I mean they argue for a cause that has been consistanty proven to never achive the goals they strive for, meanwhile pretending to care about Inner City Youth, Poor people, Minorities, Suicide victims, violent crime victims et al....but perfectly willing to toss them under a bus when they don't suit their ideology (Your girlfriend killed herself with Sleeping pills? Who cares? You have a crazy stalker who has given you death threats, and you'd like to defend yourself? Fuck you! Be defensless and like it! You're a Minority single mother who can only afford to live and work in the inner city, and the gangs control the streets? Well those gangs are just kids "turning their lives around!" Don't fear them, fear rich white republicans who attend church!)

There's a lot wrong with people like MikeB Cliff Lyon, Mike Licht, Sothern Beale, amoung many others. Dunno if I can lump Helmke and Sugarmann into this pot, tho, because they're paid so well...

tom said...

I admit to "compensating today" though.

Spent the morning out back with machete and axe and then worked in the shop until it got too durn hot down south of ya DFW folk...I'm compensating today for the whole world not being climate controlled to suit me. I need to put a window unit in the shop this summer! Summer has snuck up on us again.

Puts a man in mind of going to Africa with his hunting handguns because it's nice and wintery where I like to go "compensate with firearms for my average sized 'wedding tackle'". Too bad the trip is still 3 months away.

the pistolero said...

I'm really starting to think MikeB suffers from a serious mental illness....
I don't know if I'd go that far. I think he's just a bigoted arse-hole, much like those folks in the white sheets who'd string a man up by his neck for nothing more than the shade of his skin. And apparently Mike's just as evil, as he seems to prefer the string-ee have an extremely difficult if not impossible time mounting a defense against those who would take his life. Extreme? Sure it is. Wrong? Tell me how it is.

kaveman said...

I just discovered mikeB less than 2 weeks ago.

We started off friendly enough but it didn't take long for him to devolve into madness.

I was hoping for an anti who could engage in debate in a civil manner.

I was expecting alot.

tom said...

I just made MikeB**** cry.

Guess who's tooling up to build a .700AHR.

I'm "compensating" again, aren't I?

tom said...

For Humor Purposes Only:

Tom says "I guess I must be 'compensating' judging by the funny pic on the upper right of this webber pagerification.

I may live in Texas but I still keep in contact with them folk up in the Bitterroot Valley of my birth! Call "home" and another project idea is born...

If only I'd been born with no brain but obviously enormous wedding tackle like Mike, I wouldn't torture myself with this need to hunt and own things of "large bore".

BobG said...

"These nut jobs that like to walk around wearing guns to compensate for their lack of abilities elsewhere are to pathetic to even mock."

Psychologists should come up with a name for that syndrome, in my opinion.
Isn't it sort of creepy that anti-gun people seem to spend a lot of time fantasizing about gun-owners' genitalia?

Bob S. said...

Tom,

700 AHR? I had to google it and I still don't believe the numbers I got after looking at that page.

Using 1,000 and max velocity of 2,200 fps -- gives 10,745 ft/lbs.

My Taurus 45 is rated for 369 ft/lbs.

Holey MACKERAL.

What are you hunting with that - PLANETS?

Can't wait to see the final product -- and if I scare up the purchase price of 1 round I might make a trip down to try it out.

Keep making them cry and bleat about not "needing" anything that powerful

tom said...

Cape Hunt planned for African Spring.

Don't worry, this particular Thomas brainfart will NOT be anything close to a pistol. You could accidentally hit yourself in the face with a pistol in such a chambering.

Hey! It keeps me out of the bars and away from my musician friends of the past that use drugs!

It's a healthy hobby.

It's gonna take me about a year to build. Tiger Valley or Ft Hood Sportsman's range meetup could work...It'll keep you from ever thinking a .300WinMag even recoils.

tom said...

Just remember:

Send yer kids to Colorado School of Trades, TSJC, or Pennsylvania Gunsmith College if they aren't sure what they are going to do with their Econ or History degree. It's a dying art and we need more people in the "Torque, Smoke, and Recoil" club before everybody's kids resort to nothing more mechanically inventive than figuring out how to install really loud automotive stereos and exhausts.

Weer'd Beard said...

"I don't know if I'd go that far. I think he's just a bigoted arse-hole, much like those folks in the white sheets who'd string a man up by his neck for nothing more than the shade of his skin. And apparently Mike's just as evil"

I dunno, I think there's something to be said about people that evil. Maybe it's just a mental disorder on par with narcissism where it may be a lot more nurture (or lack thereof...Mike also talks about his unhappy childhood) but there's something to be said about somebody so arrogant and bigoted that they have a legacy of being a colossal asshole and getting total strangers on the internet to hate them. That just isn't right, and anybody in their right mind should know that they'll get a lot further making nice than making nasty. From my many exchanges with commenter extraordinaire Nomen, you'll see that people can COMPLETELY disagree on many issues, but still be respectful and friendly. (Love ya Nomen, but you're totally wrong on the Iraq War, Health care and socialism! LOL!)

"Psychologists should come up with a name for that syndrome, in my opinion.
Isn't it sort of creepy that anti-gun people seem to spend a lot of time fantasizing about gun-owners' genitalia?"

No shit, BobG! Seriously, I could have a 2" penis sporting a killer viagra erection on a hot muggy day...but in the end I'm a happily married man who refuses to cheat on his wife, so why would I care about my dick?

But it's not MY caring about my dick...it's THEM caring about my dick! YIKES!

BTW I thought of an analogy when I started carrying. Here I was bumming around town or at work, and I had my bitchen S&W1911Sc Commander with Wilson Combat mags,Federal HST Bonded Hollow Point +P defensive ammo, the I modded the gun out with some sweet Chip McCormick slimline carry grips and a Wilson commander guide rod and plug in a Galco Miami Classic Shoulder rig.

That's about $850 of nice gear under my coat (more if I hadn't gotten the 1911 for a STEAL) but I couldn't TELL ANYBODY ABOUT IT or Show it off!!!

So conceal carrying is like having a 14" penis. It's really cool, but it's not like you get much of a chance to show it to people, and many people might just be grossed out by it.

So much for compensating!

Mike W. said...

I own a .22 pistol AND a .22 "assault rifle." Not only that, but the biggest caliber rifle I own is a 5.56.

Clearly I'm not compensating enough.

tom said...

Weerd,
For that "$850 of nice gear under my coat" you coulda loaded 40 rounds of 2-Bore (with new brass)

Mike W,
I've got a 5.56 (well, in all honesty, bit more than one...) as well. I compensated for one of their inadequacies by culling an 800lb animal with it once. It's not the size of the bullet but where you place it.

:-)

Unknown said...

Bob, I'm quite pleased to be vilified by you and your friends. It's pretty funny when some of you refer to me as "evil." And of course the "anti-freedom" epithet is a good one too.

Of all the sarcasm and exaggerated accusations, I have to say Kaveman takes the cake. Take a look at the comment he left me the other day, which I posted in order to ask for an explanation. Now, over here he says, "I was hoping for an anti who could engage in debate in a civil manner."

Now, Bob, what do you make of that? Is this the kind of "good" as opposed to "evil" and "truth" as opposed to "lies" that you encourage on your blog? Do you agree with Kaveman that I have failed to be civil in my debating? Is that nasty comment of his what you would call civil engagement?

Bob S. said...

MikeB,

Shouldn't we call it like we see it?

"Now, Bob, what do you make of that? Is this the kind of "good" as opposed to "evil" and "truth" as opposed to "lies" that you encourage on your blog? "

Are you saying that I encourage lies on my blog? I guess I do in a way, I encourage you to comment. You Lie MikeB. You lie and we have shown you repeatedly to be a liar.

In that post you lied by repeating a debunked LIE that a firearm is more likely to harm some one in the home then be used in self defense. Kellermann study ONLY used times when a firearm was used to KILL a criminal. He deliberately excluded times when a person was scared off by the presence of a firearm. He deliberately excluded times when the criminal was chased away by someone showing a firearm.

So, when you repeat a lie, what does that make you?

Do you agree with Kaveman that I have failed to be civil in my debating? Is that nasty comment of his what you would call civil engagement?

"Do you agree with Kaveman that I have failed to be civil in my debating?"

OH HELL YES!!
You have repeatedly accused us of being responsible for the most heinous acts of criminals.

Yet you want address a meme designed to point out how ridiculous that is. Why are you not responsible for child porn but we are responsible for murder?

You have insulted us repeatedly with exquisite manners, but it is still insulting us. This post that I fisked is a great example. You insulting agree that we are compensating--sorry MikeB but an insult is an insult.

You repeatedly lie about your commenting policy. You have on numerous, PROVABLE occasions initially refused to post a comment on mine. When I called you on it, you post it......is that playing fair?

On many more occasions you fail to publish comments which are legitimate, addressing your points and on topic. You try to act all butthurt by the words, but it shows that you don't want an honest debate.

"Is that nasty comment of his what you would call civil engagement?"

Is insulting millions of men masculity engaging in civil engagement? You HYPOCRITE!!

You want civil engagement, discuss the issues openly, honestly, with an open mind. You are on the record as saying that our efforts are wasted because you won't change your mind that NOTHING can make you change your mind.

Why should we engage in civil discourse with you under that condition?

A commenter on Barack's Gun Lies blog described you well:

Concern Troll--The concern troll posts in web forums devoted to its declared point of view and attempts to sway the group's actions or opinions while claiming to share their goals, but with professed "concerns". The goal is to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt within the group.

Sorry MikeB, the title stands

Sevesteen said...

There are people who open carry just to freak people out, without really caring about advancing gun rights.

I don't think most organized open carry events fall in this category. Open carry walks were a big part in getting concealed carry licenses in Ohio, and a couple years ago the annual Ohioans for Concealed Carry picnic turned into an open carry event.

Weer'd Beard said...

Mike You've vilified yourself.

Also GOTTA LOVE the half-assed victim card. "OH NO KAVEMAN WAS MEAN TO ME BY APPLYING BLANKET STATEMENTS THAT ARE OFFENSIVES....JUST LIKE I DO!!! WAHHH WAHHH WAHHH!!"

Kinda like how all legal gun owners are responsible for gun crime (Despite the fact that you don't want to talk about your own illegal guns that were directly involved in gun crimes)

And of course your racist statements (most often about white men) talking about our sexual organs (see above comment) some fantastic stereotypes, the most recent "How could somebody in Montana learn a foreign language?"
(BTW my good friend just taught himself Hindi by listening to audio lessons on his commute to-and-from work...he has family from India, but he didn't tell them what he was doing so he could surprise them)

Mike, you intentionally flame, annoy, insult, and aggravate people who have nothing but good intentions, and you get upset when we point out that you're an asshole?

I certainly think there is definitely something wrong with you mentally.

Still I am glad that people like you are never really happy. You've earned that for yourself.

Anonymous said...

being "civil" is badly overrated, in my opinion. when somebody's behaving like an asshole, they need to be called an asshole to their face, i have always felt.

being intellectually honest, on the other hand, is badly underrated and too often overlooked. case in point, mike b. everything he says speaks, in the large aggregate, of a most casual disregard for truth and careful thinking on his behalf.

he doesn't care what the actual facts are, he's more concerned about his own pet theories; he doesn't care about what anybody else might have to say about his theories or what manner of criticism they might be leveling against him, he cares instead about finding more random anecdotes to use as excuses for repeating said pet theories over and over again.

it's like the rest of humanity --- indeed, the entire world outside of his head --- isn't quite as real to him as his own fond fantasies about what he feels ought to be reality, how human society ought to work. that's a fatally flawed kind of idealism, and i speak as a lifelong starry-eyed idealist.

but oh, if anyone should ever call him a rude name, he cares very greatly about that! comment moderation, quickly, block out such awful incivility!

grow up already. this is the godsdamn internet; real live adults are real live rude to each other on here, if you can't grow a skin thick enough to cope with that, step away from the computer and don't look back.

Bob S. said...

Great comment Nomen,

Exactly on the point to MikeB's behavior.

By the way, glad to have you commenting again. Welcome back.

I don't know if you have your own blog or not; I think I remember reading at one point you don't.

If you ever want to post something, I'll guest post it for you here.

the pistolero said...

It's pretty funny when some of you refer to me as "evil."...
Hey, I just calls 'em like I sees 'em. And I find it quite telling that you had nothing to say in response to my reasoning. You just obliquely whine about the terms I use.

Weer'd Beard said...

+1 pistolero! Mike likes to get all bent out of shape that we call him a liar, and complains about that...but never makes an attemt to refute our supporting data that proves what he says has little relationship with the truth.

Of course he did ONCE try to play with the big kids when he tossed up a study about childhood gun deaths from the American Pediatric Society.

Was a good attempt...sadly we pointed out the flawed rational of many of the posts, as well as pointed out that while the study did show quite effectivly that about 500 children per year die because of gun negligence (a number that is thankfully shrinking because of safety training that is offered in no small part by groups like the NRA, and in NO PART by the anti-gun groups that he worships...also that study's own data showed that these deaths and injuries were a fraction of one percent of all houses with children and guns used in the study...they didn't amit to that, but they gave the numbers) but Mike had to choose to overlook the hundreds of thousands of lives SAVED by guns to make his point.

It was shown that for 100,000-1 million people would need to die every year to save 500 children under age 16. When asked if that was a fair trade, Mike simply said the numbers were "cooked" then ran from his own blog like a frightened animal.

Of course even an exercise like this in no way changed Mike's behavior. Says a lot about the man, and "Evil" is a very good word to discribe him.

tom said...

Wanna know what's really sad about America, Bob.

Got most of the CAD stuff related to molds for the "Dragin Slayerizer .700" sorted out and because of so many USA specialty casting companies folding while we gave our industrial economy away to Chinese, There's a significant chance I'm either going to have to treble or more the cost of this project and machine everything from AMERICAN billet or hire a Commie Chinese company to do the rough castings to finish machine.

It may take me longer, but unless I find a US company up to the task of a one off set of castings like this, I think I'm just going to have to go with the "will take somewhat longer and require a lot more machining" and buy steel from one of the few specialty steel companies left in the US that's worth a darn. I can't see giving the Chi-Coms any money or gold, only lead and plutonium gifts fit my world view related to those American Soldier killing bastards.

It shall be built though. Barrel and reloading tooling are ordered and in the process fo being ordered.

With cast boolits, your per round shoulder breaking exercise would likely be about 10-12 bucks a "BOOM!".

kaveman said...

I've already responded to MikeB's "question" on his own blog; for which he responds, "Kaveman raises a very valid point."


Sometimes I should just call my congress critters and ignore all this madness...but it's too much fun.

We aren't going away. In fact, our movement is growing and the antis like Cease Fire New Jersey are going extinct.

Bob S. said...

Tom,

You are right, in fact I would encourage you to put those thoughts and the implications into a blog post. It would be great reading and possibly eye opening to many to realize how much of our capability is no longer available.


$10-12 per round? Hmm, I could probably only stand 2 anyways. I can swing that :)

What are you going to use for a range? White Sands?

tom said...

I'll see what I can do about sorting a post related to that, although, at this very moment, I like my top post being an advert for Bill Harding's new book, as he's a nice man and has been very helpful to me in cartridge identifications.

It'll first be tested in a sand filled concrete tunnel in the ground at my friend's S.O.T. shop before it's fired in human hands. After that, hadn't really thought about it. I guess I could see if I could up my record for loudest thing ever fired at a number of Texas ranges where I hold the record according to the ranger Ricks.

It's not a super long range cartridge and it isn't AP, so pretty much any range would do that has a decent berm and I also have access to private land other than mine. Not illegal by law to BOOMER out on my property but there's a lady that will complain to the sheriff's office and then they come out and look things over and tell her I wasn't breaking any laws, but it's easier to not shoot "loud stuff" on my property...

Been reading some writings of a friend of a friend this evening, killing time and thinking, and I like this quote:

...there is a trend among the insane, as the illness develops, to obsessively desire the appearance of normalcy...

If you ever see me approaching a desire for being seen as anything close to normal-ish, will you warn me? :-)

tom said...

Above referenced Kalamazoo friend just weighed in from Florida, We both keep odd hours depending on times of inspiration in our self-employs.

He saw the bit I wrote and wanted to clarify a few things for Kalamazoo people and asked me to do so. He's having OT/PT to this day, decades later, from the injuries he incurred trying to save a kid from having his bicycle mugged from him, and he wants me to add "I didn't even like that kid, I thought he was an asshole, but I wasn't going to let him be robbed."

also

He was night manager/sole proprietor, as it were, of the more of less LOVELL STREET STOP AND GO. IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHERE THAT INTERSECTION IS AS YOU ARE A STUPID YOUNG KALAMAZOO PERSON, twas down the hill from the Western Michigan University Business College Building before you WERE EVEN BORN.

As he recalled to me:
Once he tried to save the kid he didn't like's bicycle, the parking lot filled with "urban youth".

"I can fight a couple people but I couldn't fight about two dozen...they took turns. Some circled around as spectators laughing at me getting my entire skeletal structures destroyed while suffering lifelong internal injuries, some kicked me.

As they all made a party of this, they sipped beer out of brown paper bags with 40s in them as they took turns either holding me down or taking running starts at kicking me. I tried to curl in a ball but they'd pry me open for better kicking opportunities while the others partied and laughed.

Took the cops forever to turn up and as the cops turned up most all of them skedaddled."

Thomas brings you a true Kalamazoo story of when you let the monkeys run the zoo. I was there and was there to help him slowly regain his feet after that. It ended his college career. It ended his ability to wake up without being in EXTREME pain decades later.

I'd like any one of those supposed Kazoo residents to go tell him he's FUCKING COMPENSATING and I PERSONALLY WILL KICK THEIR TEETH IN.

C*cksucking stupid lame ass family neglecting, self-neglecting, moronic, useless cunts.

We went to WMU, the "kalamazoo protesters against open carry" prolly go to the private K College because their folks have 40k a year to spend on them to go learn to be stupid on the internet.

If this seems personal...it's because it was and is.

To make this entirely UN-PC, the COLORED STUDENT FRATERNITY/SORORITY folk LIVED BEHIND THE STORE WHERE THIS HAPPENED AND IT WASN'T JUST "urban youth from the ghettos of North Kalamazoo" that did this. The negro college boys up the street a bit from STADIUM DRIVE (See, I TOLD YOU I LIVED THERE) joined in with their criminal homies. Their girls hung around and laughed. The cops showed up after my friend was CRIPPLED FOR FUCKING LIFE.

They're probably in Obanana's Cabinet now.

VIOLENT RACIST BLACK CZARs or something.

Maybe we should call the White House and ask?

tom said...

Delete that if you want, Bob, but it's 100% true and not at all racist. Observant.

How many of the dear readers here are 44 years old and looking at a second series of joint replacements?

I'll bet NONE.

Sorry if I used language offensive to your children or childish men and women, but it's appropriate in the context of the story as it actually happened.

Joe Huffman said...

MikeB problem is that he is unwilling or perhaps incapable of determining truth from falsity.

It's a very common problem with anti-gun bigots.

AztecRed said...

Thanks for the link. :D

Bob S. said...

Aztec Red,

You're welcome...made me laugh and skewered the argument. Excellent work.